What if a bunch of us worked together and opened our own space? I mean, Anne and Joe and Jessica all want to do it, maybe we could work with them to help them make this place a reality sooner than expected.

Called "The Notcommon Armeggedon Pit" or something?

with enough people involved, and volunteers, we could make short work of this...

im pretty sure we could supply a pa for this.

i booked a show once

I've been booking shows for...6 years.

And that combined with the skills of other said persons, this could pan out nicely.

i call bartender.

yeah sure....why not? record store, label, shirt manufacturing, mailorder, booking, house building, bike riding...all I need to fullfill my life now is a club...

well you could just book at it if you have a busy schedule, and it could serve as an auxiliary selling space for Armageddon stuff...like 924 gilman has a tiny record store in their venue.

$10 and 5 hours from every user on the board could go a LONG way.

Jellyfish said:

i call official boozebag who gets free drinks from the bartender and rides home from hot waitresses.

Really, I would go for it. But I don't know if you realise the amount of $ you need to open a club, not talking about the people you need to know in order to get the licences, and you better know who the fuck you're doing that with, cause once it's started there's no slacking going on....oh yeah not to mention that nobody will get paid for a good year or so...
It was either the record store or the club, we picked the record store but we're going to have only 1 location...enough work like that already.

niccolai said:

exactly my point. EXACTLY my point.

6 months ago, I would have had the $$ to fund a project like this...
now, I don't have the money for anything...
and I need a new car.

well maybe we could

-) do fund raisers, like benefit shows
-) sell a compilation CD
-) try and do the venue as a non-profit so it gets less hassle by tax people and authorities
-) get private investors
-) grab some of the grants available to people starting businesses

THE ONES WHO KNOW ABOUT THE PROGRAMS ARE THE ONES WHO GET THE MONEY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was totally thinking of that guy, too!!! hahahhaha

I think a good mode of attack would be:

people interested in this, keep an eye open for availbale spaces, properties, etc

other people keep an eye out for investors...just feel out what seems like good ideas

we can pool them and see what we come up with.

I'm really just under the mindset that if we have so many issues with clubs in the area and other things, and we're all in the same boat, it might be a good idea to combine a small bit of effort on everyone's part and a small amount of input we would have thrown to someone else to make something we can agree on.

i would love to open up something in worcester along the lines of the espresso bar. the palladium is too big and hard for most locals to get into, and marque sucks.

without getting a liquor license a small club should be easlily gotten off the ground for under 10 grand.


there is even a great spot in worcester. it is an old price chopper supermarket that has been closed down on mill street for years. it is on a main road with a huge parking lot its a huge building and there are not any houses or anything right there for people to bitch. and i dont think anyone is getting that building anytime soon since it has had the for lease sign on it for years.

yea this actually sounds cool but prolly will never happen and if it does thats amazing and the scene could defintly use it

We did some of the work in PVD as we put a deposit on a building a few months ago:
*forget about non-profit
*forget about not having a liquor license
*forget about benefit shows
*forget about the comp CD
*stop talking about this on msg and start the meeting.

If you need explanations, I can explain.

I'd say worry about funds before location.
have a sortof not common tour and use all the shows as fund raisers, as said before make a compilation and sell it, coming up with the money would not be hard at all, it would just take a while. you might not even need investors. a small hall like vfw size would be perfect as far as the stage goes, and there should be a shop with cds, shirts, all sorts of merch, and even instrament repairs. I don't think a liquer license would be worth it at all, theres a place in weymouth called the oddyssey, the owner bill king sais that after hiring bouncers, getting a liscense, registering it, and making enough money to invest in the alchohal is not worth it at all.

investors have $$$ find an investment firm:
makes the business plans
forcasted expenses
forcasted revenue
profitability margin (big key)
need to do surveys of people and present the information to the board.
total market place evaluation
breakdown of the marketplace
micro vs. macro economics of the industry
etc. etc.

investors dont fuck around. they dont take alot of risks they realy on sure bets.

i should go back to college and get that business degree im 4 credits shy of..................

Lets get Schmier from Destruction to help!

yeah Anne, could you elaborate a little?

- I agree that having a meeting is a good idea, but I'd like to brainstorm first.

- I disagree that benefit shows are a bad idea....we founded a whole chapter of Food Not Bombs off of 1-2 benefit shows, and we made enough money to work independetly for a while.

- Comps are also not so bad of an idea...but I'd like to hear why you dislike it. At the very least a comp would get local bands some publicity.

- I'd prefer not to have a liquor license as it's why we have 21+ shows and not AA show in the first place...plus once you sell liquor there's a whole new set of criteria involved.

-I think I might agree that non-profit is a bad idea, but then again once we get profit involve that also raises a whole new set of circumstances, and a need for really good book keeping. For more info see this: http://mblc.state.ma.us/advisory/trustees/becominganonprofit.php

What is the space in PVD? If you're planning on doing this idea in Providence, perhaps we could get behind that and help out. Something community oriented is necessary for eastern NE these days.

1. You don't do a benefit show to open a business this is just wrong. Get a fucking loan, unless you do non-profit
2. There's enough non-profit around, it's getting tough to get help, plus there's organisation who deserves to be non-profit more than a club.
3. You won't make shit by doing a comp. It's more work than it's worth, at beat you'll make a grant, not worth it.
4. No way you can get touring bands without a bar. It's a club: 2 income the door and the bar. You don't have to get a full liquor licence but just a beer/cider/wine it's enough and the city is more flexible with that.

The space in PVD is too expensive, the building needs tons of work, and they're not selling it. We did estimates and without labor just to fix it it's $80000. Forget about it.

christraper said:

Be prepared to have your ass kicked next time I see you Blondie.

1. I still don't understand what you mean by that, but I'll respect your opinion.
2. I agree with that, it seems very meritous (meritorious? whatever, it has merit) but what if our club WAS a worthwhile organization? Like donated back to whaterver town it was in? Served other needs of the community? Musicians get dicked a lot in MA, and we need something that will help them find stuff like health care, dental, whatever...and a place that even houses pamphlets about that stuff is a good start, as well as people who know something about that stuff.
3. Agreed, but a comp could pay for some permits, some money to use as a starter fund to get loans and to do some basic work in filing stuff.
4. The Espressor Bar got touring bands without Booze. The Orleans Juice Bar got bands without booze. Re:Generation got Dillinger Four without even serving any food or beverage at all. Plus when I worked at ManRay (and when I would hang out with friends that worked at The middl East) handling an alcohol crowd is VERY difficult and can pretty much break a club sometimes. One drunk guy that you serve at your bar gets in a car crash, they knock at your door.

I'm just coming up with an idea that makes it so we can all have something that benefits us. It's not the saving grace of the world, but it's something we've all thought about and maybe we can stop being just background "metalheads" and be adults who accomplish something, you know? that's not a bad idea, right? There's tons of hungry people in this scene, and maybe we could give them a chance to put their time, money, and minds where their mouths are.

Besides, right now I'm just entertaining the idea in a public setting, seeing who would be interested. If I'm the only one that wants to do it, then maybe it's a dumb idea.

But if a lot of people are down, I don't see what is so bad about it.

That would be the coolest thing ever. Let's do it.

Like I said to you, I'm down. I'm on unemployment and switch between being able to pay rent and living in my car, so I can't really offer up any dough... but whatever I can do, I will.

dreadkill said:

its a deal, but i get to fuck the hot waitress.

as far as finding a space, I'm already on it...if anyone has done this kind of thing before, or been part of something like this (obtaining a building for these purposes? working in close contact with a club owner?) post some advice.

Anne, what did you find out when you were looking into doing a venue?

here's my plan for the$$$:
we'll make groups of 3 and assign them to various red light districts in Boston and Providence, and any other shady high crime urban area. Each of these trios will drive around and pick up lone prostitutes, telling them that "me and my pals just want some head. How much for all 3? get in..." Then we'll drive to a secluded area, beat the shit outta them, and take their $$$. The hardest part is watching out for pimps. that 's what baseball bats are for. i'm sure hoser and powerkok have enough guns for everybody. howzzzat? can we do this? who's in?

I got a bat !

My points were:
1. You don't ask money to other people to open your own business and then charge them the money to go see shows. I don't know, my point is really if you want to open a business just do it but don't ask for shit if you can.
2. Non profit are a pain in the ass to set up. When we talk to the city about our project the guy we weent to talk to, told us straight up front that a non-profit won't happen. Plus it's a lot of paperwork, everything you do as to go through a "board of directors" it's like meeting after meeting after meetings, a business is a business, if you open a club your job is to book and promote not to have meetings.
3. You guys don't realise what it takes to release something, then get rid of it, do the books etc and if you actually make money it's like 6 months after. NOT WORTH IT> FIND SOMETHING ELSE>
4.My interest is to bring touring bands and put locals on it. You can have a bar and be all ages. NO FUCKING WAY you can get a tour like Exhumed/Kataklysm/Diabolic/Malignancy for $2000, pay it, break even, and pay your staff without a bar. Now if you only want to do local shows, just rent a hall or something.

We went to the bank, they basically told us this is like a restaurant it's a high risk business, so they will only give you $ if you have a solid business plan. They want to see incomes and expenses. They want to know how many shows you're going to get, how many people are going to be there, how much money you'll do at the door, at the bar. Then they want you to deduct all your expenses (utilities, insurance, payroll, garanties, etc). Whatever leftover money you get from that, this is what they will let you borrow.

Well a big part of it is I don't think it should be about the money.

Truth be told, if someone's in metal or hardcore for money, they're going to have their dreams shattered pretty quickly. There's jack in this industry and really, you have to be content with throwing money into the wind and watching it fly away or you'll just get upset a lot.

In light of that, this type of venture should be to have a space that people can use without hassle or worry. A simple set of rules, a simple mission statement, a simple facility. If we run a bar we're getting complicated and there's more rules that come with that. If we run a store, same thing.

I mean, anyone who's done a Knights Of Columbus show knows that some of these halls aren't into doing shows. They have the halls for marriage receptions or barmitzvahs and stuff. So already there's a hurdle. But what if there were a similar type of facility you could rent that was fairly cheap, inviting of shows, and knew how to handle them in a professional manner, as well as not out to make a profit but simply sustain the business?

That doesn't seem so far off. I don't think asking a bank for a loan for this kind of thing is a good idea for the reasons that Anne stated. When was the last time a bank was interested in anything but financial return or low-risk ventures? But if we work hard and pool resources, we can make this happen to a good level.

Also, in regards to Anne's 1st point of the last post, maybe she's right...but maybe this can be a donation based thing. When Re:Gen opened, anyone that helped volunteer could get into a show for free, and they also had the option of up to 3 people getting in for free a night if they promised to help clean up. Stuff like that sounds like a good idea.

This is the kind of thing where everyone wins. And maybe it isn't the best place to have a show like Kataklysm and Man O War and Iron Maiden, but it'll be a great place for local bands and small touring acts to get a foot in the door. Not every local band can prove their medle if they can't even get a first show.

Nothing worthwhile was ever easy, and nothing easy is ever really worthwhile.

I don't think we necessarily need to own it either.

What do you think if we leased a warehouse space, told the people it was going to be used as a performance area, all work on soundproofing it as much as we can and making it sure it meets fire codes for the capacity we want, and just do it as that? That alone would be a huge addition to the NE music community, knowing there was a valid, legal, sizable, quality space that won't get the show shutdown halfway through over red tape.

I mean, this is a good discussion to have...even if we end up where we started from, we're that much wiser on the other side.