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returntothepit >> discuss >> So sorry, pussies: human hands are meant for punching by largefreakatzero on Dec 20,2012 7:58pm
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toggletoggle post by largefreakatzero at Dec 20,2012 7:58pm



toggletoggle post by Burnsy at Dec 20,2012 8:06pm
But but but... I thought they were for painting. =(



toggletoggle post by Arrow NLI at Dec 20,2012 8:17pm
Holy bad science, batman!

I love how the correct answer is thrown in as the last sentence, attributed to "another scientist".




toggletoggle post by Boozegood at Dec 20,2012 8:35pm edited Dec 20,2012 8:36pm
Arrow%20NLI said[orig][quote]
Holy bad science, batman!


Here is the actual article published in the Journal of Experimental Biology:

http://jeb.biologists.org/content/216/2/236.abstract



toggletoggle post by Arrow NLI at Dec 20,2012 8:41pm
Again, it's bad science. As pointed out in the first article, I doubt that's the reason for the shape of our hand, rather the shape of our hand is the reason we fight with our fists.



toggletoggle post by Boozegood at Dec 20,2012 8:42pm edited Dec 20,2012 8:44pm
Arrow%20NLI said[orig][quote]
Again, it's bad science. As pointed out in the first article, I doubt that's the reason for the shape of our hand, rather the shape of our hand is the reason we fight with our fists.


Well then right a counter-article, submit it to a scientific journal, let a panel of your peers review it, get it published, and show him wrong.


I guess I don't see why it is such a horrible hypothesis. I'm not saying it's 100% true, but I don't think your explanation counters it very well.



toggletoggle post by Arrow NLI at Dec 20,2012 8:44pm
Any is it me, or are they implying one should punch using the face of your fingers? Way to enforce the "science geeks can't fight" stereotype.

;)




toggletoggle post by Boozegood at Dec 20,2012 8:46pm edited Dec 20,2012 8:49pm
Arrow%20NLI said[orig][quote]
Any is it me, or are they implying one should punch using the face of your fingers? Way to enforce the "science geeks can't fight" stereotype.

;)



I didn't get that, I think they were implying that the thumb reenforces the fist at it's weakest point aka: where it 'connects' with the palm allowing pressure exerted on the front of the knuckles to be evenly dispersed without compromising the structural integrity of the first.

This coupled with the 'curling under' effect of the fingers allows for a much stronger punch. If you were to make a 'fist' like that of other primates right now, ie. thumb along the side, fingers flat to the palm of the hand and punch something (or even just put pressure on the punching-area of your knuckles) it's a huge difference. It's the same hand position used when cracking your knuckles.



toggletoggle post by Arrow NLI at Dec 20,2012 8:51pm
Boozegood said[orig][quote]
I'm not saying it's 100% true, but I don't think your explanation counters it very well.


I'm not countering it. I'm pointing out the giant gaping hole in their science, as well as their incorrect analysis on how a fist works. Even if their test proved the fist was more efficient than the girl slap (read their experiment), how does that prove anything about evolution? We also use our knees, heads, elbows, and feet as weapons. Were those also primarily shaped by these uses?





toggletoggle post by Arrow NLI at Dec 20,2012 8:54pm
Boozegood said[orig][quote]


This coupled with the 'curling under' effect of the fingers allows for a much stronger punch.


I'd disagree. Many martial arts, for example, use an open handed "punch" where the fingers don't curl into your hand. It shouldn't matter, either way, since most of the impact SHOULD be your knuckles, and landing a punch on your fingers will often result in a broken finger or two.

I'm also noticing that the experiment was based on striking a regular/flat surface, and not a landscape of angles and protuberances like most human heads and bodies are. Otherwise they'd have noted said broken fingers a lot quicker.




toggletoggle post by Boozegood at Dec 20,2012 8:55pm edited Dec 20,2012 8:57pm
Arrow%20NLI said[orig][quote]
Boozegood said[orig][quote]
We also use our knees, heads, elbows, and feet as weapons. Were those also primarily shaped by these uses?



It's not entirely unlikely that that could have been an influence. When taking a Muay-Thai knee for example; a slight turn of your hip-joint turns your knee from a relatively soft bludgeoning device into a very effect 'spear'-like weapon. A similar turn of your leg turns the soft front part of your shin into a re-enforced shield for defense, etc.

I'm not saying that per-historic humans had this sort of concept of fighting style; but I am saying that our biology could have have developed favoring effective combat uses on it's evolutionary path; as with any other animal evolution. I don't see why we would be uniquely exempt.



toggletoggle post by Arrow NLI at Dec 20,2012 9:01pm
Boozegood said[orig][quote]

but I am saying that our biology could have have developed favoring effective combat uses on it's evolutionary path; as with any other animal evolution, primarily predators.


Again, body comes first. Then we adapted our fighting style to that body.

Most compelling argument against these scientists? The primary reason our hands DO exist, coupled with our primary choice in weapons - go pick up a sword, stick, bat, etc... - our hands were built to grip, not fight. If evolution was effected this heavily by fighting, then we wouldn't be getting smaller over history. Especially compared to our nearest genetic relatives who are far, far, far faster, stronger, and better at fighting than we are.

The problem with this entire theory these guys came up with is you'd need to find some compelling evidence of actual change in the development of the human hand over time. Instead, it's been pretty consistent throughout our history. Meanwhile the way we fight has changed a zillion times in that same history.




toggletoggle post by Arrow NLI at Dec 20,2012 9:02pm
PS - I'm not anti-punching

I'm anti- shitty science



toggletoggle post by DestroyYouAlot  at Dec 20,2012 9:24pm
SCIENCE



toggletoggle post by largefreakatzero at Dec 20,2012 10:02pm
Clearly the "findings" are sketchy at best, but the point of my posting it was more to be mean to those who can't fight their way out of a wet paper bag.



toggletoggle post by DestroyYouAlot  at Dec 20,2012 10:13pm
^^ This can't be stressed enough.



toggletoggle post by the_reverend   at Dec 20,2012 10:56pm
Arrowhead's point is what I would say. And I might not be able to fight my way out of a wet paper bag, but I could gather the fuck out of anyone.



toggletoggle post by DestroyYouAlot  at Dec 20,2012 11:06pm
ITT: humans evolved hands to break Aaron's camera



toggletoggle post by DestroyYouAlot  at Dec 20,2012 11:11pm
also for playing guitar IN SPACE



toggletoggle post by Alx_Casket  at Dec 20,2012 11:54pm
If hands evolved for fighting, why haven't scrotes evolved into something a bit more hardy?



toggletoggle post by Arrow NLI at Dec 21,2012 3:04am
largefreakatzero said[orig][quote]
Clearly the "findings" are sketchy at best, but the point of my posting it was more to be mean to those who can't fight their way out of a wet paper bag.


According to the article, if your ring finger isn't longer than your index finger you're a giant vagina.

I pass the test. How's everyone else looking?



toggletoggle post by ernie   at Dec 21,2012 5:00am
This is exactly why I evolved arc emmiting arm spikes, science!



toggletoggle post by largefreakatzero at Dec 21,2012 7:37am
Arrow%20NLI said[orig][quote]
largefreakatzero said[orig][quote]
Clearly the "findings" are sketchy at best, but the point of my posting it was more to be mean to those who can't fight their way out of a wet paper bag.


According to the article, if your ring finger isn't longer than your index finger you're a giant vagina.

I pass the test. How's everyone else looking?


A-ok here. Got a strong 3/8" or possibly a 1/2" difference. I thought everyone's ring finger was longer than their index?



toggletoggle post by Yeti at Dec 21,2012 7:40am



toggletoggle post by arilliusbm  at Dec 21,2012 9:15am
Ring finger is longer here. All of my toes (sans pinky) are the same length. WTF does that mean?



toggletoggle post by Alx_Casket  at Dec 21,2012 9:23am
HOBBIT



toggletoggle post by Frost_Oath at Dec 21,2012 9:34am
arilliusbm said[orig][quote]
Ring finger is longer here. All of my toes (sans pinky) are the same length. WTF does that mean?


You should see a doctor.



toggletoggle post by arilliusbm  at Dec 21,2012 9:35am
Nah, it's been like that my whole life. People have just said it's troll feet but thats racist.



toggletoggle post by Bilbo at Dec 21,2012 9:57am
arilliusbm said[orig][quote]
Nah, it's been like that my whole life. People have just said it's hobbit feet but thats racist.



toggletoggle post by DestroyYouAlot  at Dec 21,2012 11:02am
ITT: hobbit hands evolved for stealing



toggletoggle post by arilliusbm  at Dec 21,2012 11:05am edited Dec 21,2012 11:05am
Hobbit? I dont know such creature. never heard. Are those the things that made me want to commit suicide in a movie theater last week? THATLL DO IT.



toggletoggle post by a duck at Dec 21,2012 12:20pm
Fists are for pussies. Our webbed feet are much more effective at slappin a bitch when she bills off.



toggletoggle post by DestroyYouAlot  at Dec 21,2012 12:43pm
ITT: duck penises are actually highly evolved... for rape.



toggletoggle post by largefreakatzero at Dec 21,2012 1:09pm
the_reverend said[orig][quote]
Arrowhead's point is what I would say. And I might not be able to fight my way out of a wet paper bag, but I could gather the fuck out of anyone.


Hey, don't sell yourself short. I bet you open a can of whoop-ass on a wet paper bag. Unless it was one of those cold-pack bags for ice cream, those are pretty tough.



toggletoggle post by Garth Algar at Dec 21,2012 1:29pm
DestroyYouAlot said[orig][quote]
ITT: duck penises are actually highly evolved... for rape.





toggletoggle post by Garth Algar at Dec 21,2012 1:30pm
well that didn't work



toggletoggle post by KEVORD  at Dec 21,2012 1:59pm
Our hands are highly evolved for jacking it. All things are invented to be sex objects.



toggletoggle post by arilliusbm  at Dec 21,2012 2:00pm
Ban hands, they've ended countless lives.



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