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returntothepit >> discuss >> Hold True Recordings offers a last minute endorsement for Yes on MA Questions 1 & 2 by HTR on Nov 3,2008 3:58pm
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toggletoggle post by HTR   at Nov 3,2008 3:58pm
Hold True Recordings offers a last minute endorsement for Yes on MA Questions 1 & 2



"Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, and you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost." - John Quincy Adams


We here at Hold True Recordings, despite being heavily involved in the following of constitutional and political issues in our personal lives, don't often like to associate them with the label if for no other reason than just polite social courtesy to our supporters. We know people will disagree with some of our views, and may find disagreement even within this writing as well, but we respect and acknowledge everyones rights to such opinions and disagreements.

However, given the profound importance of this election cycle on both local and national levels, and how effective of a vessel HTR can be for reaching out to people who may not otherwise have the opportunity to hear and digest what is to follow in this statement, we have little choice and must speak out on 2 critical issues:

First - We support a YES vote on Massachusetts Question 1. A yes vote on question 1 will benefit over 3 million Massachusetts citizens by ENDING the income tax in Massachusetts and allowing the average citizen to retain around $3,700 of their hard earned money!! It will cut the MA State budget, by about 27% not the 40% that the special interest groups and teachers unions (who line their pockets with YOUR tax dollars via high and wasteful government spending) claim with their fear mongering and mathematically incompetent advertising. A yes vote will also help shrink the 41% wasteful spending that the Massachusetts government has been found guilty of in an April 2008 Fabrizio, McLaughlin & Associates survey, and should not require any additional taxation to continue proper funding when wasteful spending is curtailed with a yes vote on 1. Furthermore, voting yes on question 1 will NOT shrink income to Schools and local services like Police, Fire and EMS because the money that funds these organizations are appropriated locally by the towns and school districts they service. State government funding of these agencies is how the government CONTROLS which practices and policies they implement, often have negative effects on communities which do not fit the 'Big City' model such policies often are drafted for (think of the No Child Left Behind Act on the Federal level for an example).

For more information on why you should vote yes on 1 please visit: http://www.smallgovernmentact.org/


Second - We support a YES vote on Massachusetts Question 2. Decriminalizing the possession of small amounts of marijuana will ease the burden on our prison system and law enforcement, by making possession charges a civil offense, rather than a criminal offense. In the process, this will lessen the burden of tax payers who then have to foot the bill for such 'drug offenders' in the prison system, by keeping them from getting there in the first place!! It will also generate revenue for the state by way of fines and fees for those found to be in possession of small amounts of marijuana. All drug trafficking and driving under the influence of marijuana laws will remain unchanged.


*Disclaimer: Hold True Recordings dose not endorse or promote the use of marijuana or any other mind altering substance or drug.



toggletoggle post by HTR   at Nov 3,2008 4:07pm edited Nov 3,2008 4:09pm
P.S. The opinions addressed herein do not represent those of our bands.



toggletoggle post by Murph  at Nov 3,2008 4:07pm
"You like assplay? Cause he'll do anything with the ass..."

I love drugs.



toggletoggle post by HTR   at Nov 3,2008 4:08pm
P.P.S. While we're at it, we also endorse Chuck Baldwin of the Constitution Party for President of the United States!!



toggletoggle post by orgymf@work at Nov 3,2008 4:11pm
NO....YOU ARE NOT TAKING MONEY FROM THE RICH OF MASSACHUSETTS IF YOU SUPPORT QUESTION ONE!!!

THIS IS A MISCONCEPTION!

question one would take funding from DPH, and therefor jobs from underpaid, temps who work for the state and/or low level state employees (people who make somewhere between 10-16 dollars an hour, and work their asses off all day).

people who advocate question one wanna make it seem like the 15-30 dollars a week they take out of the average working citizen in MA is this epic amount that they are being screwed out of that lines the pockets of fat cats.

not so.
i work for the state
i make probably the same as (or less than) most of the people on this board.
and if question one passes...... there 99 percent chance that me and at least two of my co-workers will be among hundreds of other state employees to get laid off, while the higher ups keep earning the exact same amount of money......and if they start to run out, they absolutely WILL take from essential services.

don't be fooled by saving a few bucks. you will be fucking yourselves (and others) over if you help this piece of shit bill pass



toggletoggle post by darkwor at Nov 3,2008 4:16pm
HTR said[orig][quote]
Furthermore, voting yes on question 1 will NOT shrink income to Schools and local services like Police, Fire and EMS because the money that funds these organizations are appropriated locally by the towns and school districts they service.


this is FALSE, i don't know where you got this info, towns are appropriated money from the state, and what about all state schools and universities?

i'm all about small government but not about schools and social services getting raped. and they will if question #1 passes. no new teacher would want to work in MA.



toggletoggle post by darkwor at Nov 3,2008 4:18pm
orgymf@work said[orig][quote]
NO....YOU ARE NOT TAKING MONEY FROM THE RICH OF MASSACHUSETTS IF YOU SUPPORT QUESTION ONE!!!

THIS IS A MISCONCEPTION!


i'm with you orgy! state employees offering a last minute endorsement for NO on question 1, YES on question 2 and NO on question 3!



toggletoggle post by ddrummer at Nov 3,2008 4:18pm
if question one passes the cost of public colleges will double, increasing the ammount needed to almost that of a private school.

fuck that im in college i need all that money



toggletoggle post by orgymf@work at Nov 3,2008 4:21pm
darkwor said[orig][quote]
orgymf@work said[orig][quote]
NO....YOU ARE NOT TAKING MONEY FROM THE RICH OF MASSACHUSETTS IF YOU SUPPORT QUESTION ONE!!!

THIS IS A MISCONCEPTION!


i'm with you orgy! state employees offering a last minute endorsement for NO on question 1, YES on question 2 and NO on question 3!


-l- absofuckinglutely -l-



toggletoggle post by HTR   at Nov 3,2008 4:29pm
Well for those of you who want to know where we can make up the difference, DESPITE the 41% waste in government spending heres a few places to look and get pissed off at (and yes, funding for local services like schools and Emergency services are raised by the towns and districts they serve. I'm an EMT here in town as well when I'm not running the label).

Here are a few examples of waste we can get rid of:

· $7 billion in refinancing cost for the Big Dig.
· $2.55 billion MORE added this year to the lucrative pensions for retired stategovernment employees - who get 2-3 times the retirement income you'll get if you're an average taxpayer. Government employees retire in their 40's 50's and early 60's - while you have to work until your late 60s.

· $1 billion in tax subsidies to multi-billion dollar bio-tech pharmaceutical corporations.

· $2 billion in interest payments every year for unnecessary debt spending to fund road projects. Pay for roads with gasoline tax and auto registration fees, and there is no need to rack up debt. Liquidate some of the state's many financial slush funds to pay down debt and reduce interest payments.

· $138.7 million tax subsidy to millionaire movie stars and directors.

· Several billion dollars/year in excess government employee health care benefits. Bring their copays, deductibles and coverage in line with the average taxpayer.

· $60,000 to $70,000 a year paid to toll collectors - plus benefits, plus pensions. This is for UNSKILLED jobs – counting and making change. A job that can be done by public schools 5th graders, high school dropouts, people trying to get off welfare, or even mentally challenged individuals who want to be contributing members of society. But instead, these jobs go to people who have political connections. D:



toggletoggle post by ddrummer at Nov 3,2008 4:33pm
and what do you make of the fact that state colleges are supposed to be more affordable yet if this bill is passed it no longer will be so.



toggletoggle post by orgymf@work at Nov 3,2008 4:39pm
HTR said[orig][quote]
· $2.55 billion MORE added this year to the lucrative pensions for retired stategovernment employees - who get 2-3 times the retirement income you'll get if you're an average taxpayer. Government employees retire in their 40's 50's and early 60's - while you have to work until your late 60s.QUOTE]

not true at all.
my boss is 62, has worked here for 34 years, and still needs 3 more to retire, i am 28, been here four years, i got a long road ahead.
and while we do have better retirement plans than most in the private sector, remember 2 things
1.state workers do not pay into (and therefor do not recivev benefits from) social security
2.they take a fairly ridiculous amount of our paychecks for that retirement plan....it's not like we don't pay for it.

and as far as cities and towns having to fund their own shit....while it may be true in some areas, you also have to remember that
1.much of that city money comes from a state grant
2.many cities have STATE colleges, STATE hospitals and STATE police.

question one is a bad idea.

could Taxachusetts do a better job with managing the money they suck out of our checks? absolutely.
but you get rid of taxes, you'll notice a big difference (for the worse) in the (not so distant) future



toggletoggle post by orgymf@work at Nov 3,2008 4:40pm
hmmm, i don't know why it came out that way.....



toggletoggle post by orgymf@work at Nov 3,2008 4:41pm
oh....i should rephrase.
i got a long road ahead.....IF I DON'T GET LAID OFF!!!! (which i will if question one passes)



toggletoggle post by HTR   at Nov 3,2008 4:43pm
Well if the state schools were not proactively competing against private schools (MA state schools are among the most expensive in the country because of this) there prices would go down. U-Mass Lowell just a few years ago spent MILLIONS on a new recording studio that rivals anything owned in the private sector of the state, it even blows away private collages that specialize in recording and music. How dose that benefit the greater good of the commonwealth when most recording majors go to specialized schools?



toggletoggle post by darkwor at Nov 3,2008 4:43pm
unfortunately i have no faith that any of that wasted money will be put to better use. just less wasted money to the same or other useless programs/benefits/subsidies. and working the state education system i do know that public schools more often than not get money from the state that is ran through the town grinder first.

either way there's no good answer. maybe if the question actually meant we could cut and change failed programs, it might actually make a difference.



toggletoggle post by MarkFuckingRichards  at Nov 3,2008 4:44pm
ORGY FOR PRESIDENT!



toggletoggle post by HTR   at Nov 3,2008 4:51pm
I noticed that no one is against yes on 2 :P



toggletoggle post by pam   at Nov 3,2008 4:54pm
Well thank fuck some label I've never heard of came out with this endorsement, I almost thought for myself!!



toggletoggle post by orgymf@work at Nov 3,2008 4:57pm
MarkFuckingRichards said[orig][quote]
ORGY FOR PRESIDENT!




-l-



toggletoggle post by orgymf@work at Nov 3,2008 4:58pm
HTR said[orig][quote]
Well if the state schools were not proactively competing against private schools (MA state schools are among the most expensive in the country because of this) there prices would go down. U-Mass Lowell just a few years ago spent MILLIONS on a new recording studio that rivals anything owned in the private sector of the state, it even blows away private collages that specialize in recording and music. How dose that benefit the greater good of the commonwealth when most recording majors go to specialized schools?


you are correct.
money is wasted.
no one is debating that.
the debate is that if there is less money for them to waste, they will not fuck themselves.
they will fuck us!



toggletoggle post by HTR   at Nov 3,2008 5:00pm
orgymf@work said[orig][quote]
HTR said[orig][quote]
Well if the state schools were not proactively competing against private schools (MA state schools are among the most expensive in the country because of this) there prices would go down. U-Mass Lowell just a few years ago spent MILLIONS on a new recording studio that rivals anything owned in the private sector of the state, it even blows away private collages that specialize in recording and music. How dose that benefit the greater good of the commonwealth when most recording majors go to specialized schools?


you are correct.
money is wasted.
no one is debating that.
the debate is that if there is less money for them to waste, they will not fuck themselves.
they will fuck us!


I agree they will probably try, but, we as the voters and appointers of those that govern us, have the distinguished pleasure to fuck back by choosing who will return to office.



toggletoggle post by arilliusbm  at Nov 3,2008 5:03pm
DRIVING UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF MARIHUANA IS MUCH SAFER THAN DRIVING SOBER

there, I said it.



toggletoggle post by brian_dc  at Nov 3,2008 5:03pm
holy shit, aril logged in



toggletoggle post by FuckIsMySignature at Nov 3,2008 5:05pm
he doesnt want people to think he's a chick



toggletoggle post by ddrummer at Nov 3,2008 5:06pm
orgy your the fucking man, im surprised someone is actually backing me haha,

right now to attend and live in a dorm at bridgewater state college it is roughly 14000 dollars a year, and thats if you dont want the best dorms, if private schools were competing they wouldn't be charging 30 to 40k

i'm not necesarrily talking about the UMass campuses, those are universities, thats a completeley different story

and for the question 2 thing I really could care less . I don't smoke so w/e i don't give a shit.



toggletoggle post by ddrummer at Nov 3,2008 5:06pm
brian_dc said[orig][quote]
holy shit, aril logged in


seconded



toggletoggle post by the_reverend   at Nov 3,2008 5:11pm
these things mean nothing.
1) mass will never lose the state income tax. you wuld have to end the state, default on all moneys and bonds owned and start a new state. thhus mass would cease to be.

2) marijuana is a federal issue/law and state laws can do nothing to protect you.

nice try.



toggletoggle post by HTR   at Nov 3,2008 5:22pm
Actualy if you wanna get super technical the judges of the U.S. Supreme Court rejected any claims that the 16th Amendment changed the constitutional limits on direct taxes in Brushaber v. Union Pacific R.R. Co., 240 U.S. 1, when they ruled that it "created no new power of taxation" and that it "did not change the constitutional limitations which forbid any direct taxation of individuals". Therefor one could conclude that all income taxes are suspect.



toggletoggle post by arilliusbm  at Nov 3,2008 5:29pm
yes, I logged in. I feel like I've gone through a sex-change operation now. awesome



toggletoggle post by BobNOMAAMRooney at Nov 3,2008 6:10pm
Already offered my thoughts on Question 1 in another thread

BobNOMAAMRooney said[orig][quote]
I'm voting no on 1 because most people and business owners are fucking morons (just look at the credit crunch that destroyed our economy, I DON'T HAVE MONEY BUT I WANT TO PRETEND I'M RICH) who would just waste the money they're not paying on taxes on some short-sighted investment. Virtually none of it would go back into the community, unless the state and local government increased property, excise and sales taxes.

Do I hate paying taxes, especially when it seems like they're not being put to work? (truck-sized potholes on Route 99 in Everett) Of course. But I'm not naive enough to have the faith in my fellow citizens to not turn into greedy hood rich morons when they get the slightest sniff of cash. Libertarianism works great when society is broken down into extremely small homologous communities and neighbors trust one another. In most urban and suburban environments (ethnic enclaves are a unique exception) where most people never know their neighbors and are so cowed by action news that everyone outside their home is a threat, empathy withers and dies.

I think what I'm getting at in a roundabout way is that we need to exterminate the transient yuppie populations and foster more ethnic enclaves.

But yeah, barring the complete reorganization of society on a much smaller scale, taxes are a necessary evil.


But yeah, I've heard most of the arguments for because one of my friends played Bioshock, read Atlas Shrugged, got a job working for his daddy that wasn't under the table (and ended up having to pay taxes for the first time ever) and suddenly went from hardcore democrat to Question 1 zombie. I don't think he understands that 80% of his dad's business, and thus his paycheck, are state contracted jobs.



toggletoggle post by SkinSandwich at Nov 3,2008 7:02pm edited Nov 3,2008 7:02pm
They should decriminalize vagina.


~~~HIGH FIVE!!!~~~



toggletoggle post by Murph  at Nov 3,2008 8:33pm
pam said[orig][quote]
Well thank fuck some label I've never heard of came out with this endorsement, I almost thought for myself!!


"You like assplay? 'Cause he'll do anything with the ass..."

I vomitchuckled from this post.



toggletoggle post by goatcatalyst   at Nov 3,2008 8:41pm
I could never trust the opinion of a person who signed a band called "Beautiful Gorgeous".

I'll bet you prefer chowder to bisque, too.



toggletoggle post by the_reverend   at Nov 3,2008 11:40pm
HTR said[orig][quote]
Actualy if you wanna get super technical the judges of the U.S. Supreme Court rejected any claims that the 16th Amendment changed the constitutional limits on direct taxes in Brushaber v. Union Pacific R.R. Co., 240 U.S. 1, when they ruled that it "created no new power of taxation" and that it "did not change the constitutional limitations which forbid any direct taxation of individuals". Therefor one could conclude that all income taxes are suspect.
oh yeah, tell that to the federal tax that is the exact same thing. good for the gander. if the income tax is "voted down" it will mean NOTHING. mass will not lose the income tax.



toggletoggle post by ouchdrummer   at Nov 4,2008 8:05am
Orgy/darkway- ya, my little sister would be losing her job too, and her job is anything but wasteful spending, and she doesn't even get paid that much.



toggletoggle post by corpus_colostomy at Nov 4,2008 8:15am edited Nov 4,2008 8:17am
ddrummer said[orig][quote]


and for the question 2 thing I really could care less . I don't smoke so w/e i don't give a shit.


you may not give a shit, but if you so 'fiscally concerned/responsible' you'd realize how much of your tax money is squandered by arrests, paper work, jail time etc etc...you dont have to be a smoker for this to effect on you.



toggletoggle post by ouchdrummer   at Nov 4,2008 8:23am
corpus_colostomy said[orig][quote]
ddrummer said[orig][quote]


and for the question 2 thing I really could care less . I don't smoke so w/e i don't give a shit.


you may not give a shit, but if you so 'fiscally concerned/responsible' you'd realize how much of your tax money is squandered by arrests, paper work, jail time etc etc...you dont have to be a smoker for this to effect on you.


and let me just add that even while you don't, there is probably someone close to you that does. And people have been put away for YEARS because of an ounce of weed. Imagine that being that person you know that isn't a drug addict, that doesn't steal from people for weed, that goes to work, and pays taxes, and doesn't drive drunk or sell it to kids. Still think they should go to jail?



toggletoggle post by corpus_colostomy at Nov 4,2008 8:26am
ouchdrummer said[orig][quote]
corpus_colostomy said[orig][quote]
ddrummer said[orig][quote]


and for the question 2 thing I really could care less . I don't smoke so w/e i don't give a shit.


you may not give a shit, but if you so 'fiscally concerned/responsible' you'd realize how much of your tax money is squandered by arrests, paper work, jail time etc etc...you dont have to be a smoker for this to effect on you.


and let me just add that even while you don't, there is probably someone close to you that does. And people have been put away for YEARS because of an ounce of weed. Imagine that being that person you know that isn't a drug addict, that doesn't steal from people for weed, that goes to work, and pays taxes, and doesn't drive drunk or sell it to kids. Still think they should go to jail?


or the kid on scholarship who looses it all and completely fucks up his future for one 'experimental' whack on a joint because he gets busted by the cops.



toggletoggle post by RustyPS  at Nov 4,2008 9:43am
Murph said[orig][quote]
"You like assplay? Cause he'll do anything with the ass..."

I love drugs.


HAHA! amazing



toggletoggle post by orgymf@work at Nov 4,2008 9:50am
ddrummer said[orig][quote]
orgy your the fucking man
.


thank you sir



toggletoggle post by orgymf@work at Nov 4,2008 9:51am
ouchdrummer said[orig][quote]
Orgy/darkway- ya, my little sister would be losing her job too, and her job is anything but wasteful spending, and she doesn't even get paid that much.


seriously.
they already doing state employee layoffs.
even if i survive this round, i will definately be unemployed if question one passes.



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