Finland's NIGHTWISH have posted the following message on the band's official website:

"Dear Tarja,

It\'s time to choose whether the story of NIGHTWISH ends here or whether it will still continue an undetermined period of time. We\'ve been working with this creation for 9 years and we are not ready to give up yet. Nightwish is a way of life, something to live for, and we\'re certain we can\'t let it go.

Equally certain is the fact that we cannot go on with you and Marcelo any longer. During the last year something sad happened, which I\'ve been going over in my head every single day, morning and night. Your attitude and behavior don\'t go with NIGHTWISH anymore. There are characteristics I would never have believed to see in my old dear friend.
People who don\'t talk with each other for a year do not belong in the same band.

We are involved in an industry where the business-side of things is a necessary evil and something to worry about all the time. We are also a band which has always done music from the heart, because of friendship and the music itself. The mental satisfaction should always be more important than money! Nightwish is a band, it\'s an emotion.

To you, unfortunately, business, money, and things that have nothing to do with those emotions have become much more important. You feel that you have sacrificed yourself and your musical career for NIGHTWISH, rather than thinking what it has given to you.

This attitude was clearly shown to me in the two things you said to me in an airplane in Toronto: ”I don\'t need NIGHTWISH anymore.” and ”Remember, Tuomas, that I could leave this band at any time, giving you only one day\'s warning in advance”. I can\'t simply write any more songs for you to sing.

You have said yourself that you are merely a ”guest musician” in Nightwish. Now that visit ends and we will continue NIGHTWISH with a new female vocalist.

We\'re sure this is an equally big relief to you as it is for us. We have all been feeling bad long enough.

You told us that no matter what, the next Nightwish album will be your last one. However, the rest of us want to continue as long as the fire burns. So there\'s no sense in doing that next album with you, either.

The four of us have been going over this situation countless times and we have realized that this is the thing we want to do in life. It´s all we can do. In December 2004, in Germany, you said that you will never tour again for more than two weeks at a time. You also said that we can forget about U.S. and Australia because the fees and the sizes of venues are too small.

In interviews I\'ve mentioned that if Tarja leaves, that would be the end of the band. I understand that people will think this way. NIGHTWISH is, however, a scenery of my soul and I\'m not ready to let go because of one person. A person who wants to focus her creativity to somewhere else, a person whose values don\'t match mine.

We were never bothered by the fact that you didn\'t participate in writing/arranging songs, you never in 9 years came to rehearse the songs with us before going to the studio. Not the fact that while on tour you always wanted to fly, separately from us with your husband. Not the fact that you are an undisputable front image of the band.

We accepted and felt ok about everything except greed, underestimating the fans, and breaking promises. It was agreed by the five of us that Nightwish would be the priority in everything that we do during 2004-2005. Still so many things were more important to you. The ultimate example being the already sold-out show in Oslo, which you wanted to cancel because you needed to rehearse for your solo concerts, meet frieds and go to the movies. Those were the words Marcelo used in an e-mail explaining the cancellation. This being just one example of so many. I couldn\'t think of a worse way of being selfish and dismissing our fans.

NIGHTWISH is a way of life and a job with many obligations. To each other and to the fans. With you we can\'t take care of those duties anymore.

Deep within we don\'t know which one of you drove us to this point. Somehow Marcelo has changed you from the lovely girl you were into a diva, who doesn\'t think or act the way she used to. You are too sure of your irreplaceableness and status.

It\'s obvious that you blame your stress and misery on us four. And you think we don\'t respect or listen to you. Belive us; We have always had the uppermost respect towards you as a wonderful vocalist and as a friend. And very often during the past couple of years the plans were made according to your decisions only. You were always the only one who wanted more money from the shows.
This ”compensation and more money from everything” –attitude is the fact that we are most disappointed of!

We wish that from now on you will listen to your heart instead of Marcelo. Cultural differences combined with greed, opportunism and love is a dangerous combination. Do not wither yourself.

This decision is not something we are especially proud of but you gave us no choice. The gap between us is too wide. And the decision is made by us four unanimously. We are beyond the point where things could be settled by talking.

All the best for your life and career,

Tuomas
Emppu Jukka Marco

Ps. This is an open letter for everybody."

The band recorded their "End Of An Era" live album yesterday evening in Hartwall-Arena, Helsinki.

well even though I'm not a fan of the band, reading that sounds like she's a cunt. Anyone that would cancel a sold out show for anything other than injury, illness, or family emergency is a cocksucker in my book. They have a big following, and I wish them the best of luck with whoever they get for a new singer.

Bummer.....one of my top 10 favorite bands ever.

btw...that was me...Hoser

This band sucks, Tarja is not even remotely a fan of metal music and does not belong in a metal band.

Maybe now we can have Tarot back full-time, far better than Harry Potter fairy-metal Nightwish bullshit

holy shit!

Chris_From_Shit_Fuck said:

i agree. i'm not much into the band either, but i think it's really scummy of her to leech off of the other members' hard work and screw her fans over just so she can get rich and live a diva's life.
she can go fuck herself, and best of luck to the rest of the band.

If you guys would only take a listen to Marco's other band Tarot, you would see that he should continue in that band (an awesome speed/power metal band) aside from a reunion record every few years, and bury Nightwish deep in the earth.

DrinkHardThrashHard said:

That's bullshit. I agree that Tarja sucks, and I'd much rather hear Nightwish with a male vocalist or a much better female. However, as far as powermetal, the best vocalists to come out of the genre were NOT metal musicians. Michael Kiske from Helloween is into elvis and pop music. BOTH singers for Falconer came from musical theater. My favorite powermetal singer, Hansi, lists deep purple and Led Zeppelin as his two favorite bands on the Blind Guardian website. The new guy that does all the live singing for Savatage doesn't even like metal, he's into showtunes, and he's far better than the old guy, Zach Taylor, who came from a metal band.

The fact is, a lot of the most original sounds come from putting people with completely opposite influences into a room together to write. I can't help but think of the time my old band played with Slapshot, perhaps my favorite hardcore band of all time. Turned out the entire Sudden Death Overtime linup (Except Mark McKay) don't even listen to hardcore. They were all into poppy crap. Choke said his favorite band was Dinosaur Jr!

Hell, Darren from Pillory/Goratory/BIS is even like that. He listens to nothing but new Metallica and J-Pop, and he's one of the best Death Metal drummers I've heard.

she was ugly and had an annoying voice anyway

as a matter of fact, who even cares about nightwish?

I listen to all of your least favorite bands ever.

ArrowHead said:

1. I understand what you meant, and apologize for the one-sidedness of which that comment I made came across, however I NEVER said metal singers couldn't or shouldn't be fans of non-metal. Please quote me on saying that...I also never said Tarja had to have favorite bands that were 'metal'. I am into as much non-metal as metal myself!

2. Michael Kiske, Falconer's vocalist, Hansi, and the new singer for Savatage are NOT the best vocalists to come out of the genre. They will never hold a candle to Halford, Dickinson, and Tate, the most widely recognized vocalists in this area of metal (Kiske is simply a clone of Dickinson and Tate anyway, both Kai and Andi Deris are more unique vocalists with a better range, Kiske is only infamous because he was the singer on most popular two records), all of which played in hard rock/metal bands BEFORE their prospective big hitters! Also, Hansi and Michael Kiske were also fans of heavy metal in addition to the 'non-metal' you list. I love both of those singers, do not get me wrong, but there are so many who simply shred them to pieces: Ralph Scheepers, Henning Basse, Warrel Dane, both Angra vocalists, etc, etc.

3. You had me laughing with this one. The 'old guy' of Savatage was Jon Oliva, who Zach Taylor replaced for a few albums. Jon Oliva was always into showtunes, classic rock, and heavy metal! He also came back as their songwriter/lead singer after Zach left.

4. Deep Purple and Led Zeppelin may not be considered by YOU to be metal bands, but they are widely, far and large considered progenitors of the musical genre. Which is why so many metal bands cover their songs...but I figured that would speak for itself.

5. My point was that Tarja does not care much about the music Nightwish was making nor her career. She went incommunicado with her band for almost a YEAR. It's all in the letter from the band!

I'm also going to drop a grenade here, but it's the sad damned truth: If Tarja had been unattractive or 350lbs, at least 33-50% less people would have listened to Nightwish. Same goes for Christina Scabbia or that bitch from Evanescence (whatever her name is). I am not saying this to be sexist, I am a firm believer in both genders in metal music and in fact some of my favorite metal musicians of all time include Dawn Crosby, Nicole Lee, Leather Leone, etc. It's a statement on the superficiality of most human beings (mainstream metal fans not excluded). If Tarja had been MALE, Nightwish would have likely been lost amidst the massive insurgence of late 90s Euro power-metal since I can name 30-40 bands off the top of my knot that absolutely destroy them anyway.

6. I completely agree with you that people with vocal skills outside metal can work well within metal, but the fact that most of them are ALSO fans of metal makes them that much more acute and proficient when it comes down to throwing down their vox.

3. The original singer was Jon Oliva, but he can't sing live anymore, so they got Zach Taylor from a local band called Wicked Witch. He sucked. Now Jon sings on album again, but they've got a new guy who does the singing live. I forget his name, but that's the new guy I speak of. I've met Jon, and there will never be as cool a guy or as sick a songwriter in the genre.

Also, Kiske was not and never will be into metal. It's not that he had OTHER influences that weren't metal, he just doesn't listen to metal. That's why he was booted in the first place, he wanted to turn Helloween into a pop band, a.k.a. - Pink Bubbles Go Ape. If you hear his new band, it's 100% pop music. If you check out the "I want out live" e.p., he even breaks down into doing Elvis impressions during "Future World". Kiske was a great singer, and definately sang on Helloweens best materials, but if you listen to the two versions of "Victim of Fate", Kai Hansen singing the original or Kiske's version on the Dr. Stein e.p., Kai Hansen was by far the better vocalist for Helloween. I will disagree with you however, that Kiske definately had a much larger range than Hansen.

6. Agreed! That's why Hansi's vocals will always have that much more aggresive style than someone like the original singer of Falconer, who was not into metal at all. It's also why James Labrie is such a fag.

ArrowHead said:

I'm with you on James Labrie 100%!!!! Arguing like this is moot since we both dislike Tarja to begin with, but I must disagree with you again and provide some factual basis here that Kiske was into metal in those days:

Michael Kiske was in a metal band called Ill Prophecy before Helloween (at least one Helloween song came with Kiske from Ill Prophecy). If he had no interest in metal he wouldn't have been in two metal bands in a row. If you listen to his two post-Helloween solo records like 'Instant Clarity', there are still some metal touches, though scarsely (as you said, he is a fan of more than just metal). The only pure 'pop' album (which really isn't pop) that he has is 'Readiness to Sacrifice', which is more like mellow rock with some orchestration. I'm also pretty sure I've got an old 'zine where he's wearing a Maiden shirt, I will try and find it.

Also, Kiske appears on records by Avantasia, Aina, Gamma Ray, Edguy, Tribuzy, Thalion, and Place Vendome...that's a lot of metal appearances for a guy who doesn't like metal at all, would you say?

It is only recently that Kiske says he will write no more hard rock (metal, hard rock...whatever) songs from his website (this past April):

"My personal understanding of free art and my human ideals are pretty much the total opposite to what this scene idealizes most of the time. And as a songwriter, I will write no more hard rock songs in the future. I discovered that I have to do things different now; my own music has got to speak a different language, and it will. But I still have a heart for intelligent rock music sometimes."

Here's another Kiske quote from an interview (Noise Records 2002):

"Yes and no! Depends on your definition. Some songs have a Metal sound just more modern, but others certainly don’t have that sound. To be honest: Only people with a little wider horizon and musical understanding than just Metal will be able to follow this record. Metal records don’t satisfy me anymore. I’ve done that! Let’s move on!"

See? He definitely liked metal at some point, and even claims one of his solo albums has a modern metal sound.

"I don't really know them. I don't care much about the Metal scene anymore. I find other bands and musical directions much more interesting today. The Metal scene isn't what it was in the eighties."

Again, Kiske implying he was into the metal scene in the eighties but doesn't follow it now. I also agree with you in liking Kai's vocals on certain songs better. I actually do believe Kai has just as much of a range as Kiske, you just need to dig through the later Gamma Ray discs when he started singing to find them. I always found his more nasally approach a little more interesting than Kiske, who to me sounded like Geoff Tate with a German inflection (and 3 of the Queensryche albums did come out before Keeper Part I).

ArrowHead said:

Fair enough, you hadn't said that in the original post, so I apologize for my confusion there. I met Savatage once also when they played the beach, long time ago though and even then there weren't nearly enough people there to watch them.

I gotta disagree with you DHTH. Believe me, I love Dickinson and Halford, I think they're the greatest, but Hansi definitely DOES hold a candle to them. His vocal style is very very dissimilar to them also (not that you said it is similar), and I think this is a sign of, if not originality (I'd say he can be compared very much with Robert Plant), then at least pioneering, since he is the only one I can think of who successfully pulls off a more hard rock style of vocals in a metal genre, although since Imaginations From The Other Side, it seems he's been going more and more metal. But think about it, Hansi isn't just another cheap rip-off of Dickinson and Halford like most metal singers out there. He has a unique style with very little vibrato, a great deal of tremelo (especially of late, and I'm using this word not in the sense of a tremelo bar on a guitar, which doesn't produce a tremelo effect at all), and a wonderfully original and unpredictable sense of harmony.

Oh yeah, and I'm a Nightwish fan. When I heard this morning that Tarja was out, I thought "Damn, there's no Nightwish without her", but since I got a chance to read the letter 6 hours or so later, I've been sympathizing a lot more with the rest of the band (assuming that it's all true, which wouldn't surprise me in the least).

So, really, I hope they get another female vocalist and carry on without her. I'm looking forward to finally seeing them, no matter who the vocalist is.

retzam said:

I love Hansi's vocals also, Retzam, I've been listening to them since 1988, so I totally respect your opinion 100%. But he is not yet a legend like Dickinson or Halford, who can pull up to 50,000 people to a single gig. Blind Guardian might pull 1,000, there were only 700 or so when I saw them on their US tour. Also, when they did what they did, it was original, and that is why they are more famous, and most likely they always will be.

When I made my earlier statement about who is the 'greatest', I was merely referencing who is most known/appreciated at large b/c I thought ArrowHead was claiming those are the most famous singers (and he may not have even meant that).

Many of the singers I listed, namely Warrel Dane, Henning Basse, and the Angra vocalist are NOT cheap ripoffs of Dickinson and Halford. Sure they all have great ranges, but they also have distinct lungs and vocal chords and often different natural inflections due to their native languages. Warrel Dane has a vicious, wavering bite and a psycho demented approach to his vocals that mark him as quite distinct. Henning Basse is an air raid siren made flesh, he can hit higher registers than Dickinson or Halford and generally stays in those higher registers. Etc, etc. Also, if you'd like I can give you some other recommendations of great power metal singers who have a more gruff approach and don't copy the Dickinson/Tate/Halford trio. I assume you've heard Piet's vocals on Iron Savior? Dirty and lower register and not a copy of Hansi. How about Grave Digger's Chris Boltendahl who was doing the dirty German power metal vocals years before Hansi, and before it was called 'power' metal.

Also, have you guys heard Savage Circus yet? The band with the old Blind Guardian drummer, they sound exactly like earlier BG and the vocalist even does a near-perfect mimicry of Hansi intentionally. I think if you like the 3rd, 4th and 5th BG records you will really dig it.

retzam said:

Maybe they can get a real opera singer, like Diamanda Galas. Then I'd give it a listen. (this was mainly a joke for my drummer's eyes, if he ever reads this)

*gasps* people in metal bands listening to other stuff besides metal!?! i dont know, thats just too much for me to handle right now

Who is Diamanda Galas? For some reason I thought she was a punk singer...

retzam said:

http://www.diamandagalas.com/home.htm

She is a very unique, dark operatic singer, some would classify her within the goth parameters.

DrinkHardThrashHard said:


Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that Dane, Basse, and the Angra vocalist ARE cheap ripoffs of Dickinson and Halford. On the contrary, I havn't heard them at all, that's why I didn't mention them. Yeah, Hansi is no legend, that's for sure. But BG are pretty popular in Europe. How many people did they pull for BG fest back in 2002 (or was it 03??). I don't know, but on that DVD it looks like the crowd isn't too much smaller than the Rock In Rio DVD (hahaha I'm probably really wrong about this, I have no numbers in my mind for either gig). But yeah Dickinson and Halford =

mOe said:

Noone said they didn't...

DrinkHardThrashHard said:

Hahaha I'm way off. I came to that assumption after reading Get In The Van by Henry Rollins. I guess I forgot that Henry Rollins was never a very close-minded person when it came to music.

retzam said:

Dickinson has had headlining pulls (without even Maiden) that drew tens of thousands. BG's biggest pulls have been in Europe at festivals, which they weren't the exclusive headling draw (often there were more than 20-30 major bands on those fests). You may have heard those guys:

Warrell Dane = Nevermore (and formerly, the amazing Sanctuary when he had more range)

Henning Basse = Metalium (he's the best part of the band, check out the song 'Steel Avenger' with its chorus crescendo...he is sick and nearly popped my ears and windows when I first cranked that)

If I'm ever online AIM me at Necroletariat I can give you any samples your heart desires.

retzam said:

I will say this, she is the 'punk' of opera. She's quite fascinating, primarily because of her compositions and the fact that every album she does has some sort of interesting concept/meaning.

I just listened to a little off of Defexions (sp? don't feel like checking it). It certainly is interesting; I've never heard anything like it.

BG Fest did have a lot of other bands on them, but I at least havn't heard of barely any of them besides Napalm Death, and BG was the band headlining each night anyway. However, clearly you're not just referring to this one fest, and clearly I can't just base this off of the fan-drawing of one fest, which came from all over the world so it really isn't even a good representation of how many people they pull anyway. You're right, Dane (didn't know him by name) isn't a cheap rip-off of Dickinson or Halford. Personally, I like Hansi's style better than his, but undoubtedly he is the perfect guy for Nevermore (havn't heard Sanctuary).

Who knows, give BG a decade or so and they could erupt to Maiden-like proportions. Highly unlikely though. Metal has been enjoying a lot of success these past 5-8 years but I think it may be due for another dive soon.

We will see.

We have to remember 2 things:

1) Popularity has nothing to do with ability or talent. Just compare a band like Pillory with a band like Linken Park. Maiden and Blind Guardian are in no way similar styles. Maiden came out into a scene that was huge, BG has plugged away for 20 years in a scene that has died out around them.

2) The gig on BG's new DVD drew 6000 BG fans. Festival or no, They're all singing along with every tune. How many people were maiden drawing in 1995? I believe there was a REASON they dissapeared for a while. Remember, there's a 10 year difference between the bands. Maiden are more popular than they wver were right now. Who's to say BG won't be the biggest band on earth in 2015?

DrinkHardThrashHard said:

interesting you should mention her! Two of the guys in Nightwish were given one of those 'random listening' review sessions, I think in Terrorizer magazine several months back, and they totally ripped on Diamanda.

she's busy cancelling her Boston shows, anyway
(tee-hee, JK, it wasn't her fault, she got fucked by some promoter)

anyhoo, back to ripping on Nightwish...

Right, which is what I just said, give them a decade or so and see....

Noone in this thread has said popularity had anything to do with talent, but it has everything to do with bands who are remembered by [x] # of people. Iron Maiden will mostly likely always be more famous than Blind Guardian for the same reason the Stones will be remembered more than the Wallflowers. This doesn't mean it's right, and I certainly don't feel that way.

Aaah....the German power/speed metal scene has not died. No...Blind Guardian has hit bigger in the States than other bands, but Helloween, Primal Fear, Gamma Ray, and a dozen or more others have all perservered, Helloween perservering much longer than Blind Guardian has

Also Maiden NEVER disappeared in the 90s, they simply made an unwelcome choice with their replacement singer and did not tour the US very often. They were still touring Europe and doing festivals. I also realize there is a 10 year difference in the bands, I HAVE been listening to metal since 1979

As far as Maiden's draws, I saw them in 1988 and there were insanely more than 6,000 people. In the 90s and there were more than 6000 people. I saw them with Motorhead in 2003 and there were probably 10,000 at least (probably a lot more). This is all in their non-native country! In the UK festivals...the draw is fucking gigantic...5-10x that amount of people. I agree with Arrowhead that these days they are as huge as ever, but that is partly due to their exposure to a new batch of fans during a metal resurgence here in the States.

Blind Guardian's DVD was recorded in their home country, the power metal capital of the world, where they headlined the Blind Guardian festival. Though they headlined, and were undoubtedly the most popular band there, let's not forget it's a metal festival in Europe, to which 6,000 is actually a small draw (reference Dynamo, Wakken, and the attendance of other festivals), and that they were not the only major band to play: Grave Digger, Primal Fear, Freedom Call, Brainstorm, Rage, Tankard, White Skull, and Subway to Sally, not to mention Soilwork (whose records outsell Blind Guardian in both USA and Europe). Almost all of those bands were performing in their home country too!

However, ArrowHead, I am not sure your estimate is correct, I have seen reviews that claim there were 40,000-50,000 people at the BG Open Air over the two days!!!!!! Who knows, but that sounds closer to what a European metal festival draws. I have seen the DVD once but I can't remember how many people they showed, and can't seem to find a concrete estimate. Did you mean 60,000? Do you have the DVD? Does it say? EDIT: Just checked, looks closer to your estimate, I see estimates of 4,000-10,000 on their forums, from people who attended.

The bottom line is: I WISH I LIVED IN EUROPE!

litacore nli said:

Nightwish is fucking retarded and can bite my crank. Diamanda Galas has more talent in her makeup compact then they will ever possess.