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:	post by ShadowSD at 2006-03-12 07:15:15

Hoser said:

All good points.....and all points taken. Thanks for having the balls to explain the position. I respect you for that, and you sound educated; which I also respect.

Thanks man, I respect you too for hearing out the arguments and considering a different point of view.

More liberals to need wake up and realize that just as America is unnecessarily getting trounced in a PR war with its enemies, progressives are unnecessarily getting trounced in a PR battle with neo-cons. Why? Because we fall victim to our own presumptions.

Listen to how far right conservatives convey themselves online, on cable news, and talk radio. They make their points clearly, concisely, and thoroughly, leaving very little potential ambiguity. But liberals with a public platforms think that the centrist and conservative elements of their positions are automatically presumed by the viewer. They are not.

I'll give an example: Note where I said above that "We're at war, and treating our enemies as anything but is living in a fantasy world". In the past, I might not have included that sentence, presuming well everyone thinks that way, so why state the obvious? WRONG. Why would a far right conservative automatically assume the best about someone on the other side? Had I not included that sentence in my last post, my viewpoint might not have been taken as seriously by a conservative, and my entire argument might have been dismissed as the deluded words of a nieve terrorist sympathizer. I see this happen to progressives over and over (it's happening to HailtheLeaf in this very thread), and by the time they make it clear that they are not terrorist sympathizers, all the conservatives have already stopped listening to them. Under those circumstances, the smartest progressive cannot hope to outdebate the gremlins in Ann Coulter's vagina.

(Let me make it clear, I'm not trying to say that liberals should try to sell themselves as something they're not, that's why neither Gore and Kerry were able to win the Presidency. They acted too much like watered-down Republicans in the general election, and therefore a large percentage of liberals never turned out to vote for them. No one of any political persuasion wants to elect a boring, neutered conformist with no personality. What I'm saying is that progressives should be honest and forthcoming about all their positions, even if all those positions are not liberal)

In summary: for progressives, to include centrist or conservative positions that you believe in is good, but dwelling on those positions to the point where you're not using the majority of your time to make progressive arguments is bad. Until we can learn to strike that balance, we will lose every debate, even in situations where all the facts are in our favor.

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